DNS-Persist-01: A New Model for DNS-Based Challenge Validation

I think this is solving a real operational pain point, definitely one that I've experienced. My biggest hesitation here is the direct exposure of the managing account identity not that I need to protect the accounts key material, I already need to do that.

While "usernames" are not generally protected to the same degree as credentials, they do matter and act as an important gate to even know about before a real attack can commence. This also provides the ability to associate random found credentials back to the sites you can now issue certificates for if they're using the same account. This is free scope expansion for any breach that occurs.

I guarantee sites like Shodan will start indexing these IDs on all domains they look at to provide those reverse lookup services.

This is going to make it way easier to get publicly trusted certs for LAN servers that aren't internet facing.

I'm looking forward to every admin UI out there being able to generate a string you can just paste into a DNS record to instantly get a Let's Encrypt cert.

This is a nice increment in ACME usability.

Once again I would like to ask CA/B to permit name constrained, short lifespan, automatically issued intermediate CAs. Last year's request: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=43563676

Really happy to see this.

In the meantime, if you use bind as your authoritative nameserver, you can limit an hmac-secret to one TXT record, so each webserver that uses rfc2136 for certificate renewals is only capable of updating its specific record:

  key "bob.acme." {
    algorithm hmac-sha512;
    secret "blahblahblah";
  };
  
  key "joe.acme." {
    algorithm hmac-sha512;
    secret "blahblahblah2";
  };

  zone "example.com" IN {
   type master;
   file "/var/lib/bind/example.com.zone";
   update-policy {
    grant bob.acme. name _acme-challenge.bob.acme.example.com. TXT;
    grant joe.acme. name _acme-challenge.joe.acme.example.com. TXT;
   };
   key-directory "/var/lib/bind/keys-acme.example.com";
   dnssec-policy "acme";
   inline-signing yes;
  };

I like this because it means an attacker who compromises "bob" can only get certs for "bob". The server part looks like this:

  export LE_CONFIG_HOME="/etc/acme-sh/"
  export NSUPDATE_SERVER="${YOUR_NS_ADDR}"
  export NSUPDATE_KEY="/var/lib/bob-nsupdate.key"
  export NSUPDATE_KEY_NAME="bob.acme."
  export NSUPDATE_ZONE="acme.example.com."

  acme.sh --issue --server letsencrypt -d 'bob.example.com' \
        --certificate-profile shortlived \
        --days 6 \
        --dns dns_nsupdate

I've changed my mind about the short lived cert stuff after seeing what is enabled by IP address certificates with the HTTP-01 verification method. I don't even bother writing the cert to disk anymore. There is a background thread that checks to see if the current instance of the cert is null or older than 24h. The cert selector on aspnetcore just looks at this reference and blocks until its not null.

Being able to distribute self-hostable software to users that can be deployed onto a VM and made operational literally within 5 minutes is a big selling point. Domain registration & DNS are a massive pain to deal with at the novice end of the spectrum. You can combine this with things like https://checkip.amazonaws.com to build properly turnkey solutions.

Yeessss! This should finally make certificates for internal only web services actually easier to orchestrate than before ACME. This closes probably the biggest operational pain point I've had with letsencrypt/modern web certificates.

Thank you so much to all inolved!

After having to deal with VM hosts that do GeoIP blocking, which unintentionally blocks Let's Encrypt and others from properly verifying domains via http-01/tls-alpn-01, I settled on a DIY solution that uses CNAME redirects and a custom, minimal DNS server for handling the redirected dns-01 challenges. It's essentially a greatly simplified version of the acme-dns project tailored to my project's needs (and written in node.js instead of Go).

Unfortunately with dns-persist-01 including account information in the DNS record itself, that's a bit of a show stopper for me. If/when account information changes, that means DNS records need changing and getting clients to update their DNS records (for any reason) has long been a pain.

There's a missing part here, and that's validating your ACME account ownership.

I think most users depend on automation that creates their accounts, so they never have to deal with it. But now, you need to propagate some credential to validate your account ownership to the ACME provider. I would have liked to see some conversation about that in this announcement.

I'm not familiar with Let's Encrypt's authentication model. If they don't have token creation that can be limited by target domain, but I expect you'll need to create separate accounts for each of your target domains, or else anything with that secret can create a cert for any domain your account controls.

I'm surprised the ballot passed, unanimously even! I get that storing the DNS credentials in the certificate renewal pipeline is risky, but many DNS providers have granular API access controls, so it is already possible to limit the surface area in case the keys get leaked. Plus, you can revoke the keys easily.

The ACME account credentials are also accessible by the same renewal pipelines that has the DNS API credentials, so this does not provide any new isolation.

~It's also not quite clear how to revoke this challenge, and how domain expiration deal with this. The DNS record contents should have been at least the HMAC of the account key, the FQDN, and something that will invalidate if the domain is transferred somewhere else. The leaf DNSSEC key would have been perfect, but DNSSEC key rotation is also quite broken, so it wouldn't play nice.~

Is there a way to limit the challenge types with CAA records? You can limit it by an account number, and I believe that is the most tight control you have so far.

---

Edit: thanks to the replies to this comment, I learned that this would provide invalidation simply by removing the DNS record, and that the DNS records are checked at renewal time with a much shorter validation TTL.

This will make things so much easier.

Here, certbot runs in Docker in the intranet, and on a VPS I have a custom-built nameserver to which all the _acme-challenge are redirected to via NS records.

The system in the intranet starts certbot, makes it pass it the token-domain-pair from letsencrypt, it then sends those pairs to the nameserver which then attaches the token to a TXT record for that domain, so that the DNS reply can send this to letsencrypt when they request it.

All that will be gone and I thank you for that! You add as much value to the internet as Wikipedia or OpenStreetMap.

I'm really excited for this. We moved 120+ hand renewed certs to ACME, but still manually validate the domains annually. Many of them are on private/internal load balancers (no HTTP-01 challenge possible), and our DNS host doesn't support automation (no DNS-01 challenges either). While manually renewing the DCV for ~30 domains once a year isn't too bad, when the lifetime of that validity shrinks, ultimately to 9 days, it'd become a full time job. I just hope Sectigo implements this as quickly as LE.

> The timestamp is expressed as UTC seconds since 1970-01-01

That should be TAI, right? Is that really correct or do they actually mean unix timestamps (those shift with leap seconds unlike TAI which is actually just the number of seconds that have passed since 1970001Z)?

Today I do the following:

/usr/bin/letsencrypt renew -n --agree-tos --email me@example.com --keep-until-expiring

Will I need to change that? Will I need to manually add custom DNS entries to all my domains?

PS To add, compared to dealing with some paid certificate services, LetsEncrypt has been a dream.

To get a Let's Encrypt wildcard cert, I ended up running my own DNS server with dnsmasq and delegating the _acme-challenge subdomain to it.

Pasting a challenge string once and letting its continued presence prove continued ownership of a domain is a great step forward. But I agree with others that there is absolutely no reason to expose account numbers; it should be a random ID associated with the account in Let's Encrypt's database.

As a workaround, you should probably make a new account for each domain.

I wonder why they switched from a super-secure-super-complex (in terms of operations) way of doing DNS auth to a super-simple-no-cryptography-involved method that just relies on the account id.

Why not using some public/private key auth where the dns contains a public key and the requesting server uses the private key to sign the cert request? This would decouple the authorization from the actual account. It would not reveal the account's identity. It could be used with multiple account (useful for a wildcard on the DNS plus several independent systems requesting certs for subdomains).

Is it possible to create an ACME account without requesting a certificate? AFAICT is is not so you cannot use this method unless you have first requested a certificate with some other method. I hope I am wrong!

I really like and hate this at the same time.

Years ago, I had a really fubar shell script for generating the DNS-01 records on my own (non-cloud) run authoritative nameserver. It "worked," but its reliability was highly questionable.

I like this DNS-PERSIST fixes that.

But I don't understand why they chose to include the account as a plain-text string in the DNS record. Seems they could have just as easily used a randomly generated key that wouldn't mean anything to anyone outside Let's Encrypt, and without exposing my account to every privacy-invasive bot and hacker.

Interesting. Think a lot of the security headaches went away for me when I discovered providers like CF can restrict the scope of tokens to a single domain and lock it to my IP.

This might be the first time in ten years that a certificate proposal intends to make issuing certificates more reasonable and not less. More of this, less of 7-day-lifetime stupidity.

"Support for the draft specification is available now in Pebble, a miniature version of Boulder, our production CA software. Work is also in progress on a lego-cli client implementation to make it easier for subscribers to experiment with and adopt. Staging rollout is planned for late Q1 2026, with a production rollout targeted for some time in Q2 2026."

This is significantly better than my draft of DNS-ACCOUNT-01. Thank you Let's Encrypt team!

[dead]

Ah, the next step towards True DANE!

We then can just staple the Persist DNS key to the certificate itself.

And then we just need to cut out the middleman and add a new IETF standard for browsers to directly validate the certificates, as long as they confirm the DNS response using DNSSEC.