Mercedes‑Benz starts large‑scale production of electric axial flux motor

Mercedes acquired Yasa (UK) couple of years ago and now getting up to the speed in the production.

Here is a nice video that explains axial flux motors with a factory visit

https://youtu.be/B2Hl4c1iZK0?si=VfDYARyuaPVj1nKm

They are so, so, small.

It would have been awesome if that article had, at any point, explained what an electric axial flux motor was, and why anyone might want one.

[German] !!!!

Very cool. Good to see more axial flux motors in the wild - will be interesting to see if they become the new standard in future. With smaller material costs the cost to manufacture at scale could actually become lower than radial

I expect radial will still dominate for at least another decade or so outside of premium performance focused cars. Radial has been battle-tested and proven. Axial still has a few more years to prove it's reliability in the field. Higher loads and stresses, tighter tolerances could make the axial motors less reliable overall especially at mass market trims. Mercedes is probably over-engineering for reliability and performance on the premium car

Radial is also "good enough" for most applications. The efficiency, form factor and weight improvements of axial is nice, but they aren't the limiting factor. Radial is already highly efficient, reasonably light and small. The real level for weight is the battery

I want to do an engine swap in my 1980s Toyota pickup (like on Back to the Future) from a 100 hp 22r to a 150-250 hp fuel injected inline 4 or turbodiesel to raise the thermodynamic efficiency from 20-25% to ~40% to nearly double fuel economy.

Unfortunately, most modern engines are transverse mounted. They can fit any transmission with an adapter plate, but then they're set too far back into the firewall to access stuff like the high-pressure fuel pump (which is often mounted on the transmission side for easy access on front wheel drive vehicles). I feel that's by design for planned obsolescence.

So I really wish that someone would offer a 4-6" thick 100-200 hp (100 kW) axial flux motor insert between the engine and transmission. Optionally with a simple battery management system (BMS) storing perhaps 5 kWh to provide up to 15-20 miles of electric range and hybrid fuel economy with regenerative braking.

If anyone knows of one, please let us know! If not, then those of you who won the internet lottery could make a killing investing in a novel product that everyone wants but doesn't know it yet.

I remember when YASA announced it and when MB bought them. Amazing technology and advancement in electric motor design. Good to see they somehow try to commercialize it.

An interesting part here is probably manufacturing and not the motor itself : going from a prototype to something you can mass produce reliably is often the hard part

This video explained to me what an axial flux motor is and how it's different to radial flux.

Amazing what materials science achieving to get this sort of power as well as the engineering and manufacturing.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dCO633KE7RA

Glad YASA's achievements are being realised but the UK really needs to get it act together so we can fully realise the next tech breakthough.

My highlights:

> In the Coupé, the engine on the front axis is 9 cm (3.5 inch) wide, the two engines on the rear axis are 8 cm wide each (<3.2 inch).

> The fully electric "Performance" model accelerates from 0 to 100 km/h in 2.1 seconds.

ETA: Images of the engine:

https://media.mercedes-benz.com/article/bebac2af-acdc-465a-9...

https://media.mercedes-benz.com/article/bebac2af-acdc-465a-9...

Great overview on overcoming traditional motor flux saturation & density issues https://youtu.be/m507ryWhc6c?t=397

Tangential, how much regen can this system support?

For example, can a car with 200kW propulsion have a 400kW regen (Tesla has upto 65) and are cost effective like friction brakes?

The main benefit here seems to be smaller and lighter for the same power output.

For family cars we need 4x 30-50 hp units. If the motor can weigh around 7 kg it can be placed directly on wheel. Adding durable brake discs (rarely used) and 2 inverters front ad back and we have the EV platform of the next 100 years

I wonder, is axial flux motor as cool sci-fi sounding in German as it is in english?

Seems like China is using them in buses already?

https://english.cas.cn/newsroom/cas-in-media/202606/t2026060...

Four years ago, when YASA's invention was discussed on HN, it attracted very little interest. Mercedes apparently saw more potential and decided to invest.

https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=31701133 Inside Yasa: how a British firm is revolutionising electric cars (2 points | 0 comments)

This headline claims large-scale production, but the article never indicates what that would be in terms of quantity per year.

Their motor is pretty cool. So are lots of other ideas and concepts. This is supposed to be about production. Arguably, the coolest thing about Yasa is the machines and process they have created to produce their motor in production quantities.

It disappoints me when an article promises to be about production but seems more to be a press release about the product.

I wish them well and would be excited to learn more about their actual production capacity.

Roads? Where we're going we don't need roads.

Only slightly related but does anyone know anything about motors with magnetic bearings? As in, no contact or friction. I'm looking for a hardware project

I would guess that hydro and other generator forms would benefit from this design as well?

Personally I’d love to see this make it’s way into power tools and CNC motors.

Only if they could mass produce flux capacitor.

For a century Germany's comparative advantage has been [mechanical] engineering. As a European I want (need?) Germany to succeed. Ergo: more of this, please.

That is such a cool name!

That is one angry looking car.

There isn't going to be a lot of improvement in overall EV performance/capability from better motors. Existing, boring motors are already close to 100% efficient, already small, and already powerful.

Advancements here chip away at margins, its nice but nothing to get super excited about. Whereas a modest ~20% increase in energy density from batteries would be amazing. Every little bit we improve there unlocks new capabilities. Towing long distances, smaller affordable economy cars and sports cars, airplanes, etc.

This is gonna be wild in a few years when these things are parted out the way tesla motors have been… Everything about these is crazy!

If you’re not caught up https://youtu.be/m507ryWhc6c?si=Hq3dfjXYxEIlYzeo

I am speculating but here might be reasons axial flux motors have advantage over radial flux motors:

1) torque: torque = applied force x length of the lever. Because the radial flux rotor must fit inside the stator, therefore radius << motor outside diameter. With the axial flux motor, the rotor is adjacent to the stator, therefore radius < motor outside diameter. Axial rotor radius > radial rotor radius.

2) space efficiency: in a radial flux motor you have 1 rotor, the coils arranged so that one end of the coil's magnetic field is useful to work on the rotor, the other end is not used. In an axial flux motor, (1) pancake rotor at each end of the coils, total (2) rotors, the coils can act on a rotor at each end. There is no free lunch here, to do useful work you still must provide more energy to the coil, but you can get the most from the space.

There must be someone here with a better handle on the electromagnetism, please correct me where I err.

"axial flux motor" sounds like good progress towards the flux capacitor we've been waiting for

Ah, another fantastic British innovator (YASA) having to realize its potential (and ultimately the downstream economic benefits of commercialisation) abroad.

Brought to you by the only country to have a space programme and abandon it.

[dead]

It remains to produce the flux capacitor for time travel now :P

10 years behind Tesla, they are doomed

Never become dependent on doing hideously complicated things. You will eventually struggle to choose to do something more efficient, as the european auto industry is currently displaying. The car where thid motor will be used will, given current market sentiment, be a massive flop. Here they are showing off how complex the manufacturing process is. Surely we’d all be better off with simpler and cheaper processes.

Great, they finally started mass-producing 19th century technology, let's cheer that! Nowadays, while Chinese and Americans are producing GPUs, AI and li-ion batteries, German high-tech is an engine invented by Faraday